On the 3Ball page of this -very helpful- section could we have different Bookmakers than the Matchup section or is it too much work?
The reason is that the books who offer 3Ball at every tournament are different than the Matchup ones: ie Pinnacle has never offered 3Ball while William Hill and Unibet at important 3Ball players.
→ Notably Unibet because they are now the only Kambi shop on your screens and they could be used by your clients for all the other shops!
William Hill are also important because they have their own oddsmakers and dont copy/paste the board like other bookmakers you are showing on that page (ie BetMGM just copies Bet365 everytime so no real value in showing them…)
In general the “European” oriented books are much more active on 3Balls than the US facing shops so there is a dichotomy between the Matchup pages (US product) and the 3Ball page (Euro/UK/Aus product) which is not reflected in the way you present the odds
I understand the could be a backend reason or resource issue in changing the 3Ball page but it would be enormously appreciated by us who regularly bet 3Balls
Agreed. WH also has some of the best tournament and round match-up opportunities but for now I’m just having to make the calculations manually.
Yeah, that makes sense. We are a bit US-centric right now. Before next year we plan to add some books. It would be helpful if you put any other suggestions you have in here (there are also other threads that I’ll look at as well). The limiting factor here is just the ease with which we can scrape these sites. Unibet is not easy to scrape for matchups, but we can revisit that. We’ll likely add Circa as well. I don’t know that we’ll be covering bet365 anymore after this year as their site has become an absolute nightmare to scrape. So having a book that copies their lines would be good.
Ouch that doesn’t sound good!
Bet365 really is a “marketmaker” book with huge influence on the rest of the Retail books so not having them would definitely be detrimental I feel…
I understand scraping can be painful and involve more manual work than you want but if it were easy than we would do it ourselves this is one of the most important USP of your site so please re-consider!
Circa does not have their own Golf oddsmaker and usually tail BetCris so lower value here…
Yes they are an important book, but as long as we have a book that is copying them, that should essentially be just as good right? Anyways, maybe we will come up with a good solution by next year, but right now Bet365 is almost impossible to scrape. Would also probably be helpful for us to have some sort of legend, explaining which books are actually making unique lines versus tailing others.
How are you calculating this?
I calculate the EVs by running the matchup through the simulation tool on the DG prop page, and then comparing the outcome to the implied probabilities from the WH odds.
FYI, I looked at the line movements and it appears to be correlated to postings in the Scratch Tools section. +EV plays that were not explicitly posted there moved more slowly.
Do you mean if, e.g., something was not posted on the matchups page but could still be priced using the custom h2h tool?
That is correct. Odds for matchups listed in the MatchUp/3ball Tool page updated more quickly than the matchups that were not listed.
I also noticed that the items in the Outright Betting Tool are extremely quick to move. Whereas the nationality and regional props move more slowly.
FanDuel report. Top 5/10/20/30/40 markets were posted today.
The value plays for the Top 5/10/20 markets disappeared within minutes (seconds?) and I was left with a handful of leftovers.
There were significantly more decent value plays in the Top 30/40 markets remaining, though I would presume that some of these moved as well.
I’m pretty sure someone (or many someones?) is scraping the value plays from the Finishing Positions page. Some of the plays literally disappear within 10-15 seconds.
If the plays are not posted in the Finishing Positions page there is a much longer window to lock in the best prices.
FYI, betting is all about speed. If you stop to think about which plays are good or not, like 80% of the value plays disappear.
Is Fanduel not offering matchups of any kind this week?
They were late this week, for sure
I have to give them credit for offering lots of props and often offering the best odds.
With that said, they’re often late with their odds and once they post, the odds often change like 20% within 30 seconds.
Quick update on BetOnline. Not only do they typically have horrible juice on the futures, they update very fast too. All the values on futures were gone within 10 minutes of Data Golf’s postings.
I think the books change odds based on the Outright Betting Tool too. While scratch tools for Finishing Positions and Matchups/Finishing Tools are very useful and save a ton of time if the books don’t move the odds, in reality the books move the lines like 10% within seconds of the odds being posted there.
I’m pretty sure that the price movements are slower if you need to manually generate the odds using the Tournament Props or look at the pre-tournament predictions.
WIth that said BetOnline might be a lost cause since I suspect they subscribe to Data Golf and have someone update all the odds using a script within 10 seconds. That and their futures odds have like 10-20% more juice than the other books to begin with.
While sometimes odds change as quickly as you are suggesting, the vast majority of the time at most books they don’t. We track (and you can view) all the odds movement on the outright page itself by clicking the right-side of each row.
I like all these suggestions by Skyfish. Adding UniBet (or some Kambi book) to the main odds screen for 3 ball and if possible adding the Will Hill odds (Caesars in the US) would greatly help in comparing odds across the books without having to look at multiple screens. The holds on the 3 ball market are higher than the matchup market, but the books lines differ enough the synthetic hold is actually pretty similar or less than the MU markets
Does anyone know if any of the bookies available on the matchup/3-ball page is a SBTech bookie (i.e bethard/comeon)? Meaning if I can use any of the books shown for all SBTech skins?
Isn’t DK now SBTech?
That’s correct. You can use DraftKings on the matchups page for SBTech lines (About SBTech)