Team leaderboard for LIV?

Seems like this would be useful, will it ever be added? Not sure if it’s easy or not to add team names, probably difficult when we get these weird dropouts and random Ogletree subs

any chance this will be added on the live predictive model?

Gonna go out on a limb and say there’s absolutely no shot this happens.

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Yeah, we can maybe consider it. Apart from my dislike of LIV, there also just isn’t much interest from our users in it, so we aren’t really looking to do LIV-related improvements.

Probably wouldn’t add it to the live model page though, that’s kind of a sacred template.


For what it’s worth I am in Canada and I can bet on LIV so I’m interested in whatever addition you could do.

but isn’t it the old chicken and egg thing here, your LIV offerings are way below your PGA offerings (current LIV link doesn’t work, they seem to come out later, no strokes gained broken down by type of shot [I know that’s not your fault] and you don’t have live updates usually for the tournaments). So your LIV product is just a lot worse, plus it was slow to sort of get picked up by betting sites which is now fixed a bit.

I would love the team leaderboards, I think it’s a possible huge addition to golf (sadly not how LIV has handled it now)

What link doesn’t work?

We have live probabilities for every LIV event.

As for the SG category data, that really shouldn’t affect player profile views (which is what we typically use to compare interest in different events). Next week all of the LIV players’ views will be back to normal levels because it’s a major (even though their profile pages are still lacking some SG data).

Not sure if you saw this from our newsletter a few weeks ago:

It’s not like it’s just our site where there is no interest, if you google the LIV Miami event this week there is very few articles written about it outside of what the LIV editorial team has done.


Seeing some LIV strokes gained data trickling out into the twittersphere the last couple days.

Wait there’s a LIV event this week? I’ll check for the value after R1.

“but isn’t it the old chicken and egg thing here”

I think it is neither the chicken, nor the egg. I would describe the lack of interest in LIV as some combination of the following:

– the fact that it is hard to watch-- both hard to find a feed, and then once you do, completely nauseating and disorienting once you do.
– the shotgun start completely ruining any kind of tension that might exist in a final round, making it difficult to get a sense for how a round plays out
– the bizzaro, paid-puppet media environment on twitter surrounding it
– the fact that they take all of the things that the PGA tour does terribly, and do them even worse
– the fact that they never even fucking play!!

“they seem to come out later”

Maybe because the tournament starts a day later?

“no strokes gained broken down by type of shot”

You acknowledge that this is 100 percent LIVs fault, and there is nothing DataGolf can do about this.

Look, I would love for there to be a fun, exciting, competitive alternative to the PGA tour. I am as disappointed as anyone that LIV is an uncompetitive farce that completely sucks in every way. Some of my favorite players are player there!

My personal view is that DataGolf is treating LIV with far more dignity than it really deserves, with their own live leaderboard being far superior to LIV’s, for example.

The main page Miami link takes me to sync desert open with no one in the field and no odds there. I didn’t mean just your site, many books have failed to offer as many props or betting lines for LIV which certainly affects interest along with it being a YouTube production often at odd hours. The new tour will always have serious problems for interest vs established one, especially in a sport as conservative as golf.

How does it ruin tension? The last 3 groups go off 1st hole, not like winner is teeing off 16 or something.

I find the broadcast a significant upgrade on the PGA Tours outside of a the final few holes with a great duel going on. The rest of the tournament LIVs is massively superior, they show every golf shot if you want and the main feed is just nonstop shots.

I agree lack of competition is a worry, but I wonder that about a lot of PGAT golf as well. There is just so much guaranteed money floating around where is the true need to be a killer to win for almost all of these guys

I don’t think “nonstop golf shots” is really what makes golf viewing great on TV. The times I have watched LIV, I feel it makes the broadcast pretty disjointed. Of course it is better than commercials or “playing through” as the leaders come down the stretch. Additionally, ESPN+ coverage of Tour events runs circles around what LIV produces.


Could you put the bad link in here? I’d like to fix it, I still don’t know what you are referring to.

When you click Miami on main page you get

How does it run circles around LIV? I enjoy ESPN+ also, it’s much better than the actual broadcast but it still doesn’t show as much Golf as LIV broadcasts and you can’t watch every shot from every player

Jesus… that’s bad. Ok, thanks. It is because you are not logged in, if you are logged in it goes to the usual LIV outright tool. We’ll fix that.

Well LIV doesn’t have commercials (because they are content losing $50M per event), so they can show more golf. But it does seem like just rapid-firing golf shots is not the best way to present it, especially when most of those shots are putts.

At the end of the day LIV is still just pro golf… which can be great, at times (like Mayakoba this year)… but what’s the point of all this again?

I think we’ll all look back on this one day and realize that post-Tiger professional golf peaked in like 2021. Hopefully we get back there some day.


they provide the feeds to follow every group if you want so if you want fewer shots you can watch the ones you want only. though I do broadly agree they show too many putts, but this is true no matter what event or tour.

I don’t care so much about commentators. I know many think Smylie or Kis or whoever is really additive, I think the commentators are very rarely additive.

I also agree with your point that it’s just golf, which is my whole argument with people getting depressed or tired of all this. it’s just a sport, why not embrace the two different tours and two different types. It’s kind of cool to have the leagues separate and a bit of mystery at the majors (and I think there should be a big season ending month of crossover competition as well). The innovation we get as fans (signature events, improved graphics, season long title race attempts, LIV trying things like shotgun start + teams) would never come from stock PGA Tour circa 2016.

My big problem with PGA Tour was even when they had a monopoly on the best golfers they had no way of getting them together or building any sort of title race/relegation so there were very few meaningful shots each week

The best players played together plenty pre-signature events. One of the strengths of golf is the variety in its schedule and fields. Having the same 50 guys playing every week is boring from a fan and betting perspective.

I don’t see how a lifelong golf fan can be indifferent towards LIV. The best players in the world have taken heaps of money to play in a joke league and abandon the ecosystem that made pro golf what it is today; it’s disgusting to think about. These guys just have no shame, I guess.